吵起来啦

有男生的地方就有争吵啊

Sorry for being too rough in answering your post! I used quite some strong terms that I could have easily avoided. Unfortunately I do not have online documents that support my claim (150 years) ... everything that you may find online about Jerusalem is already written by pro-Israelis. But I will promise to spend more time on looking for the documents (and if needed, I will scan them and put them online). The kingdom of Israel existed for 600 years but was not centered in Jerusalem only: Hebron was the capital for most of the time and then Jerusalem for a minor period. Anyway, wikipedia, although, does not agree with my views, reports that the whole life of the kingdom is about 600 years (and mostly concentrated in Jerusalem) which is honestly not that long period relatively to the time Muslim spent in Jerusalem (sine year 638). BTW, Palestenian Muslims are Arab of culture and mostly Phoenician ethnically (group that existed in Palestine way before the Jews entered that area). Here is something from Wikipedia:

"Jerusalem is considered Islam's third holiest city after Mecca and Medina. Among Muslims of an earlier era, it was referred to as al-Bayt al-Muqaddas; later, it became known as al-Quds al-Sharif. In 638, the Islamic Caliphate extended its dominion to Jerusalem.^[52] With the Arab conquest, Jews were allowed back into the city.^[53] The Rashidun caliph Umar ibn al-Khattab signed a treaty with Monophysite Christian Patriarch Sophronius, assuring him that Jerusalem's Christian holy places and population would be protected under Muslim rule.^[54] Umar was led to the Foundation Stone on the Temple Mount, which he cleared of refuse in preparation for building a mosque. According to the Gaullic bishop Arculf, who lived in Jerusalem from 679-688, the Mosque of Umar was a rectangular wooden structure built over ruins which could accommodated 3,000 worshipers.^[55] The Umayyad caliph Abd al-Malik commissioned the construction of the Dome of the Rock in the late 7th century.^[56] The 10th century historian al-Muqaddasi writes that Abd al-Malik built the shrine in order to compete in grandeur of Jerusalem's monumental churches.^[55] Over the next four hundred years, Jerusalem's prominence diminished as Arab powers in the region jockeyed for control.^[57]"

我觉得就是一盘乱帐，反正历史悠久的地区民族，事儿就是比较多，牵涉的民族关系也比较多，各说各的理。中国，印度，中东，，都这样，，，

像美国多好，一群人从欧洲过来，把本地的印第安人喀嚓得差不多了，剩下点跟熊猫一样圈个保留地保留起来，也没闹腾的力量了。建国了，买点黑奴来，然后释放了他们，多简单的历史呀。。。。

I completely understand that Jews suffered a lot in the past, but that can never explain or excuse the atrocities that they are committing in Palestine. Israel as established 60 years ago is based upon a very racist ideology named "zionism". In a nutshell, this is what happened: Europeans massacred Jews during the second world war; but then kind of felt guilty and wanted to pay back to the one who survived (actually they really did not feel guilty, they just wanted to relocate them from Europe to somewhere else). The one who survived were unfortunately fueled by zionism and wanted to establish a nation in Palestine which back then was under British control despite the fact that it was 99% Arab. The British did not mind giving the land to the Jews even though it was dwelled by other people. Once the zionists moved to Palestine, they started forming terrorist groups that chased many Palestenians out and killed many others. That's pretty much how they grew this big and swallowed Jerusalem entirely. 

1.以色列建国前的暴力行为主要是针对英国人，而非巴勒斯坦人。因为英国的“白皮书”改变了贝尔福宣言，不再允许犹太人移居巴勒斯坦。

2.以色列建国前，巴勒斯坦地区阿拉伯人的比例是78%左右，而非99%。

3.以色列建国的第二天，阿拉伯联军就主动攻击以色列，正是在战争过程中，以色列取得了远超过分配的领土，

而非你想象的“chased many Palestenians out and killed many others”，

事实上，这是一个双向的驱逐和杀戮过程，

类似于印巴分治时的人口流动过程。

而且阿拉伯联盟挑起了战争，

战争的结果是以色列胜利了，如果以色列失败，那被chase和kill的就是犹太人了。

战争开始时，阿拉伯联军的实力远远超过新生的以色列，这并不是什么秘密。

我非常反对像井盖儿那种不懂历史，狂热亲以的人，但我并不认为你在这方面的知识比他好多少。

至多你们偏执的方向不同。

[此贴子已经被作者于2009-1-7 0:00:03编辑过]

当时巴勒斯坦的土地所有权主要属于大马士革和开罗等地的大土地所有者，

而非巴勒斯坦的穷人，

顺便说一下。

时光倒流的anti-Israel倾向和井盖儿的pro-Israel倾向相映成趣。

而且都没有什么事实佐证。

[此贴子已经被作者于2009-1-7 0:14:38编辑过]