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Huaren
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注册时间2003-01-09

maomao

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2024-10-30 17:50:54

能进这个表格的都不行

真正的富人有专业团队,一万种方法避税

Huaren
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威望31
贴子25347
魅力25431
注册时间2019-07-23

Namama

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2024-10-30 17:57:48

你这叫扫盲?

我估计你连最低替代税都不懂把?

你还钱的时候不就要交税了?

你以为美国税务局是烧饼(SB)吗 出台的富人税是可以说避就避的?

不论你啥方法 都有一个最低替代税压死你 你避税部分不能让你的税点低于最低替代税

哪怕你借款花欠的钱 你要还的时候一样自动激发最低替代税

包括你公司奖励你 你甚至都没有卖掉的股票 都要立刻交最低替代税 (而这是大部分人的情况 因为realise 才交税的激励股票的金额限制非常之低 也就是马斯克被奖励了价值8亿的股票 必然是属于立刻会被realise的激励性股票 也就是立马要交30%多的最低替代税 也就是好几亿的税收 并且没有任何途径可以避免)

这些都是金融课基础常识



VV_CC 发表于 2024-10-30 17:48


IRS是SB,美国税法存在大量loophole,这不是常识吗?

川粉为了洗地,竟然连这种常识都要挑战??


Buy-Borrow-Die这都已经讨论多少年了,你是完全不接触金融,所以完全没半点基本概念?


Say you own a successful business—so successful that your stake in it is worth $1bn. How should you fund your spending? If you pay yourself a wage of $20m a year, the federal government will collect 37%, or some $7.4m. So perhaps you should take a salary of $1 and sell $20m-worth of shares. If these were gifted to you upon founding the firm, the entire sum represents capital gains and will be taxed at 20%, which would mean a $4m hit. What if, instead, you called up your wealth manager and agreed to put up $100m-worth of equity as collateral for a $20m loan. In 2021 the interest rate on the loan might have been just 2% a year, meaning that returns from holding the equity, rather than selling it, would easily have covered the cost of servicing the borrowing. Because the proceeds of loans, which must be eventually repaid, are not considered income, doing so would have incurred no tax liability at all.


The strategy is even more compelling once the “stepped-up basis” is considered. When the holder of an asset dies, the value for capital-gains assessments is “stepped up” from its purchase cost to its value at the time of death. In this way, “buy, borrow, die” does not simply defer capital-gains taxes—it can eliminate them entirely. Nothing is paid on gains made between the original purchase of an asset and the value at the death of the original holder.



At Morgan Stanley and Bank of America (BoA), both of which run large wealth-management businesses, the total value of securities-backed loans to clients leapt from around $80bn in 2018 to almost $150bn in 2022.

Banks are more than happy to make such loans. As lending tends to be collateralised by securities that can be easily seized and sold, it is treated as low-risk by regulators.


https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2024/06/20/americas-rich-never-sell-their-assets-how-should-they-be-taxed


Huaren
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大衣被禁

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2024-10-30 17:59:25

Namama 发表于 2024-10-30 17:50

这都什么乱七八糟的。。


股价跌了会自动触发强行平仓机制啊

所以先还再借的意义是啥??

对银行来说承担的风险并没啥区别


你要不要算算全美前25富,过去5年里财富增加了多少,这13.6B的所得税只占多大比例??





???

啥叫股价跌了自动平仓啊?

你房子跌了,银行能让你把30年房贷一个月还清?

你都说啥乱七八糟的啊?

先还再借的意义就是借了钱就得到期还啊。


这跟人家财富增长有啥关系啊?人家财富增长是unrealized gain啊。您不是说人家不交税吗?我告诉你人家交税,平均每人每年交一个亿。我建议你给他们去当会计,传授你不交税大法。一年帮人省一个亿,你起码能赚1千万。

Huaren
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注册时间2023-10-01

夹克325

只看楼主

2024-10-30 17:59:51

maomao 发表于 2024-10-30 17:50

能进这个表格的都不行

真正的富人有专业团队,一万种方法避税


所以为了造福富人,他们连团队都不需要雇佣直接免税是吗?


逻辑就是真正富人有专业律师团队,一万种无罪辩护方法,所以他们杀人不犯法是吗?

Huaren
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Namama

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2024-10-30 18:09:53

大衣被禁 发表于 2024-10-30 17:59

???

啥叫股价跌了自动平仓啊?

你房子跌了,银行能让你把30年房贷一个月还清?

你都说啥乱七八糟的啊?

先还再借的意义就是借了钱就得到期还啊。


这跟人家财富增长有啥关系啊?人家财富增长是unrealized gain啊。您不是说人家不交税吗?我告诉你人家交税,平均每人每年交一个亿。我建议你给他们去当会计,传授你不交税大法。一年帮人省一个亿,你起码能赚1千万。


1)抵押的是highly liquid 股票,为啥不能自动平仓??


2)这里说的就是富人缴税只占了他们财富增长的一小部分,因为他们以各种方式避免 realize the gain

所以才要提这个所谓的unrealized gain capital tax


3)这个钱早就被人赚了。。。

MS 和 BoA,仅仅两家银行这方面的股票抵押贷款业务就有1500亿美元,足够有钱人开销了



Huaren
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注册时间2017-10-31

VV_CC

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2024-10-30 18:11:36


IRS是SB,美国税法存在大量loophole,这不是常识吗?

川粉为了洗地,竟然连这种常识都要挑战??


Buy-Borrow-Die这都已经讨论多少年了,你是完全不接触金融,所以完全没半点基本概念?


Say you own a successful business—so successful that your stake in it is worth $1bn. How should you fund your spending? If you pay yourself a wage of $20m a year, the federal government will collect 37%, or some $7.4m. So perhaps you should take a salary of $1 and sell $20m-worth of shares. If these were gifted to you upon founding the firm, the entire sum represents capital gains and will be taxed at 20%, which would mean a $4m hit. What if, instead, you called up your wealth manager and agreed to put up $100m-worth of equity as collateral for a $20m loan. In 2021 the interest rate on the loan might have been just 2% a year, meaning that returns from holding the equity, rather than selling it, would easily have covered the cost of servicing the borrowing. Because the proceeds of loans, which must be eventually repaid, are not considered income, doing so would have incurred no tax liability at all.


The strategy is even more compelling once the “stepped-up basis” is considered. When the holder of an asset dies, the value for capital-gains assessments is “stepped up” from its purchase cost to its value at the time of death. In this way, “buy, borrow, die” does not simply defer capital-gains taxes—it can eliminate them entirely. Nothing is paid on gains made between the original purchase of an asset and the value at the death of the original holder.



At Morgan Stanley and Bank of America (BoA), both of which run large wealth-management businesses, the total value of securities-backed loans to clients leapt from around $80bn in 2018 to almost $150bn in 2022.

Banks are more than happy to make such loans. As lending tends to be collateralised by securities that can be easily seized and sold, it is treated as low-risk by regulators.


https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2024/06/20/americas-rich-never-sell-their-assets-how-should-they-be-taxed



Namama 发表于 2024-10-30 17:57

你常识都不懂 避税你能避利息吗

你1000万增值 贷款了800万 花800万+利息 如果花掉了后 你的资本没增值到1800万 你就得立刻还钱

还钱就立刻要交税 还要交利息 承受双倍风险

而且BUY BORROW DIE 这个是为了自己死了继承的时候 减资本利得税用的 什么时候感觉你不死也可以触发?

你必须要死了 才能叫 BUY BORROW DIE

活着 就要还钱 + 还利息 除非你的资本增值速度极快 并且没有任何波动 有波动你就大幅交税 + 无收益 + 白交利息

最多只能做到偶尔一两年税比较低 利息比较低 之后可能突然出现交特别多税还亏利息的情况

还有 绝大多数你现在知道的有钱人 比如马斯克 他想避税 门都没有 都是激励股权 立刻要缴税的 而且都是几亿美金的去缴

怎么就成了你口中 富人想不交就不交呢?非常理论上的情况 并且非常少数极少数的有钱人在纯理论 贷款+利息永远赶不上资产上涨波动 运气极佳的人 才可能交的税 低于15% 绝大多数富人最低的税就是只缴纳资本利得税 而大部分CEO 新贵 上市公司的高端人才 和金融大鳄 都是逃不掉30多的最低替代税的


再看看你发的英文 也是和你的论点风马牛不相及

仅仅1000来亿的资本用这种方式常识管理税务

你知道美国富人阶层掌控的资金是多少美金吗 几十万亿了 才1000亿还是最近才上升的趋势 很可能是因为很多人快挂了才用这种方式想降低遗产税+资本利得双重税收的

用遗产的方式 也就仅避免这些股票继承过程 重新计算本金 这也很合理 因为我8000万股票 是3000万增知道8000的 我没realise那么多 我只交了2000万部分的税 其他我就没卖过 但是我给小孩的时候 这3000万的就可以豁免资本利得税了 但是含这3000万的增值的总本金 通过这种遗产方式 能避免遗产税吗?当然不能

也就是说 8000万交了遗产税 当然合理的避税 可以不用再补3000万的资本利得了 毕竟我到死都没有最终realize 那3000万

Huaren
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salier

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2024-10-30 18:12:37

富人确实交的很少

Huaren
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Kirin9000s

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2024-10-30 18:15:36

所以美国(其实是美国大资产阶级)才害怕共产主义

Huaren
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大衣被禁

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2024-10-30 18:15:58

Namama 发表于 2024-10-30 18:09

1)抵押的是highly liquid 股票,为啥不能自动平仓??


2)这里说的就是富人缴税只占了他们财富增长的一小部分,因为他们以各种方式避免 realize the gain

所以才要提这个所谓的unrealized gain capital tax


3)这个钱早就被人赚了。。。

MS 和 BoA,仅仅两家银行这方面的股票抵押贷款业务就有1500亿美元,足够有钱人开销了




因为你借了钱,银行不能说卖你的抵押品就卖你的抵押品。银行要在你债务到期,你逾期的情况下才能卖。您债务不到期他不能卖。您逾期了,就算你的抵押品值几十倍,银行也要卖啊。不会等你抵押品跌了再卖啊。您到底懂不懂什么叫借钱啊。

谢谢您担心啦。人家一年交一个亿的税,交过税的收入就几个亿啦,真的够花啦,真的不是靠借钱出生活费的。

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Huaren
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mermaidyuu

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2024-10-30 18:16:43

ezf 发表于 2024-10-30 17:10

川普算巨富吧,他交税了么?为什么一直不公布税表?


这就是川普的政策之一啊,

上次总统辩论的时候就说过,自己雇的律师知道tax code,合法避税。

韭菜们就等着割。

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